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bblick |
Clear some things up
Oct 12 2009, 1:51 AM EDT
Well we all know that the Cat is officially out of the bag about Peter. The chick who can tell when people don't belong sniffed out Peter's "glow" and now she's in on this secret. that he's really from the other universe... I wonder how this will play into the story!!!Which brings me to my next question... as Nina Sharp descriped the theory that there can only be one of each thing in each place (the smashing of the globes together example) how is it possible then, that Walter, William Bell, Olivia.... how can they move between universes... if there is already one of them in that other universe and they go there, that would suggest that while they're there - there is 2 of them??? Walter must've taken Peter from another Walter, else Peter wouldn't exist!! So what I'm saying is wouldn't Nina's theory go to 'crap' so to speak!? Feast on that question for a while! 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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BuckeyeMan |
1. RE: Clear some things up
Oct 12 2009, 12:31 PM EDT
"Well we all know that the Cat is officially out of the bag about Peter. The chick who can tell when people don't belong sniffed out Peter's "glow" and now she's in on this secret. that he's really from the other universe... I wonder how this will play into the story!!!Good questions....Peter came to this reality after the original Peter from this reality died. I think it is possible that a second Walter (from the other reality) is still in the asylum (we saw him in episode 8) From Bell's words, he "could count the people that have jumped on one hand" We know of Bell, Peter, (perhaps) Walter2, Dunham and we're almost out of fingers. Bell said last Thursday that he was from "our" universe. I have been wondering what the Bell from the other universe is doing...and we haven't gotten any clues. Your basic question is one that stumps me also...I'm not sure it is obvious why there has to be a war. If I knew there was another me out there somewhere, I think I'd like to send me an email and say, "Hi, how ya doing?" Do you find this valuable? |
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achilles11 |
2. RE: Clear some things up
Oct 12 2009, 7:19 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 12 2009, 7:20 PM EDT
may sound a silly question, but when bell says "jump "is he just talking about people who move from one reality to another? or is he perhaps talking about people who have been suddenly and unexpectedly moved between realitys as in olivias case from a moving car? the hippie chick said she saw many people who did not belong.which suggest that many from other realities move about in ours. also is it possible that nina lost her arm moving through realities,say if the window/interface shut on her? just wondering how the bowling guy knew of the headaches?
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the.other |
3. RE: Clear some things up
Oct 13 2009, 10:58 PM EDT
"Well we all know that the Cat is officially out of the bag about Peter. The chick who can tell when people don't belong sniffed out Peter's "glow" and now she's in on this secret. that he's really from the other universe... I wonder how this will play into the story!!!First you have to come to terms that a multiverse is not just 1 or 2 of something, but infinite somethings of the same thing. As I stated in another thread, lets go back to the end of season 1: Olivia is sitting in a restaurant waiting for Billy, who no-shows and she heads for the elevator. At some point, Olivia is "ripped" in two... one carries on in the original timeline where she returns to her vehicle and apparently gets into a car crash... While the other Olivia visits with William Bell. Now, before Bell is able to return the Olivia with this newfound "wealth of knowledge" he must "rip" the carbon copy Olivia from the original world. Hence why he said, "crude manner." If you do the math, it apparently takes 1 hour to travel through the "nexus" between multiverses. Upon that hour, the carbon copy has been "ripped" & placed into another universe while the Olivia #1 has crashed through a window 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Icastillo |
4. RE: Clear some things up
Oct 30 2009, 4:57 PM EDT
"Well we all know that the Cat is officially out of the bag about Peter. The chick who can tell when people don't belong sniffed out Peter's "glow" and now she's in on this secret. that he's really from the other universe... I wonder how this will play into the story!!!If I understood correctly Nina was talking about the inevitable collide of the dimensions into one. Not about the dimensions per se. But also is about time that Peter realizes that he is from the other dimension I think that should be fun to watch. Do you find this valuable? |
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DamienReigns |
5. RE: Clear some things up
Oct 30 2009, 6:59 PM EDT
"First you have to come to terms that a multiverse is not just 1 or 2 of something, but infinite somethings of the same thing. As I stated in another thread, lets go back to the end of season 1:I don't believe it takes one hour to pass through. If you remember the episode when escaped mad scientist homeboy was trying to use that mega universal remote to open a tear between worlds you could see what was happening on the other side in real-time AND that tractor trailer came flying through it and was cut clean in half...just like homeboy was. Do you find this valuable? |
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KayFlame |
6. RE: Clear some things up
Oct 30 2009, 7:23 PM EDT
hmm.... i got the impression that Nina was talking about how when the inevitable door was opened between this dimension and the Other Side, and the war ensues, that only one side will win and the other side will be completly obliterated.but that doesn't explain how two Bells are living in the same world permenantly. Olivia was just there for a bit, as was Walter when he snatched Peter. Origional-Peter obviously is dead, so no two Peters are living here simutaniously. But now i really want to know how Alter-Bell is doing... did someone kill him? 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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mokvohk |
7. RE: Clear some things up
Oct 30 2009, 11:46 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 30 2009, 11:48 PM EDT
Firstly, I also don't think it took Olivia an hour to travel between the two worlds - recall her avoiding the near-crash on the way to the meeting with Nina Sharp in the season 1 finale? My theory is that the near-miss was the point of return. Upon transportation, she had as much time on the other side as she had spent since that near-crash, then Massive Dynamic re-inserted her back into our side at the point of the crash, causing her time spent waiting in the restaurant never to have happened (except to Olivia). Secondly, the Poly-Exclusion Principal has no bearing on there being parallel facsimiles of something in one particular dimension, but rather stating simply that any space (in a given dimension) can only hold one particle of matter at any one time - meaning that physically, matter cannot share its volume with other matter without damage to one or more materials in-question. There can be two Peters, or thirty, but if any share the same space (in the same dimensions) at the same time, there would be bad results for at least one of them. The same applies to any matter, the whole of the Earth, or our Milky Way or the entire Universe. There's lots of room in any dimension, remember, but when two particles get too close, physically, the static repulsion force between them can be huge. 1 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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jbehme |
8. RE: Clear some things up
Oct 31 2009, 12:31 AM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 31 2009, 12:46 AM EDT
"Well we all know that the Cat is officially out of the bag about Peter. The chick who can tell when people don't belong sniffed out Peter's "glow" and now she's in on this secret,that he's really from the other universe...I wonder how this will play into the story!!!According to theories in physics which are given credibility by giant particle accelerators which fire atoms of matter and antimatter at each other, matter and antimatter cannot exist together without their mutual destruction, in a large scale a singularity creating new universes of stars and planets, according to big bang theory. Then there's theories of eleven dimensions, string theory, brane theory, and a theory that there are as many dimensions as combinations of possibilities. That is,to say, which way we choose, or which infinite direction events and circumstances and things can go. We've only inferred from what we've been shown so far, that there's only two dimensions or universes in Fringe. Or are there more? 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Canadadreamgirl |
9. RE: Clear some things up
Oct 31 2009, 4:22 PM EDT
From what Walter said when he was describing to Olivia what deja vu was, every time we make a choice, we choose one path, and somewhere else another version of us chooses another path. It keeps branching out, and sooner or later each path will cross - we do something in this reality, that our alternate self does in another reality - or already has done - and we know we've experienced it before. Now how we know what our alternate selves have experienced, is another question! One that Walter doesn't fully explain, except to say that when we cross paths with what our alternate selves have done, that we experience deja vu. So we have all these alternate selves on alternate worlds doing the choices we don't take. But I don't know that the writers are holding true to this for the actual explanation of the alternate world Rather, the ZFT manual that Peter finds in Ability, says that there are other dimensions, and one of them that is slightly more advanced technologically than ours is the one that has already started sending people over - the First Wave, shapechangers, we now know. And Peter. But since Olivia and Charlie are in the same place in both worlds - FBI agents - the theory of different decisions doesn't hold true.
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jbehme |
10. RE: Clear some things up
Oct 31 2009, 9:35 PM EDT
"From what Walter said when he was describing to Olivia what deja vu was, every time we make a choice, we choose one path, and somewhere else another version of us chooses another path. It keeps branching out, and sooner or later each path will cross - we do something in this reality, that our alternate self does in another reality - or already has done - and we know we've experienced it before. Now how we know what our alternate selves have experienced, is another question! One that Walter doesn't fully explain, except to say that when we cross paths with what our alternate selves have done, that we experience deja vu. So we have all these alternate selves on alternate worlds doing the choices we don't take. But I don't know that the writers are holding true to this for the actual explanation of the alternate world Rather, the ZFT manual that Peter finds in Ability, says that there are other dimensions, and one of them that is slightly more advanced technologically than ours is the one that has already started sending people over - the First Wave, shapechangers, we now know. And Peter. But since Olivia and Charlie are in the same place in both worlds - FBI agents - the theory of different decisions doesn't hold true."Everything you just said, dreamgirl I found very helpful and useful,except the last statement, which I'm not really sure I follow. "...the theory of different decisions doesn't hold true." I think Walter and I would reply, "or does it? I'm not sure, but, as the Beatles once sang, in Strawberry Fields, "That is I think I disagree." 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Canadadreamgirl |
11. RE: Clear some things up
Nov 1 2009, 10:35 AM EST
"Everything you just said, dreamgirl I found very helpful and useful,except the last statement, which I'm not really sure I follow. "...the theory of different decisions doesn't hold true."I think I meant with the last statement about the theory of different decisions not holding true, is that it hasn't been explained if an alternate self of ours (or Walter's or Olivia's) chooses a different option, but the rest of their choices are the same, are they necessarily on a different path? would they have a slight detour and then the paths look the same? Or does it branch away completely even though everything else is the same? I know I'm probably over-analyzing this too much! It just means I am fascinated by this theory of deja vu and alternate selves, and I want to see how it works. I expect that as Fringe goes further on we will get some more answers about deja vu and alternate selves and worlds.Maybe I should reword the last sentence to ask if it's possible to make decisions differently but end up doing the same thing, like alt-Olivia and alt -Charlie are doing!! So: given that alt-Olivia and alt-Charlie are in the FBI as our world characters are, how does the different choices theory of deja vu fit in with the alternate world being slightly technologically ahead of our own? Do they fit? Are we talking about different realities here? Good point raised, jbehme. None of my views on this show are set in stone, because in this wonderful show we learn something new almost every episode :-) so I ask you in turn (and anyone else out there who has a theory about this), does the theory hold true? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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jbehme |
12. RE: Clear some things up(or perhaps muddy the water)
Nov 1 2009, 8:57 PM EST
"I think I meant with the last statement about the theory of different decisions not holding true, is that it hasn't been explained if an alternate self of ours (or Walter's or Olivia's) chooses a different option, but the rest of their choices are the same, are they necessarily on a different path? would they have a slight detour and then the paths look the same? Or does it branch away completely even though everything else is the same? I know I'm probably over-analyzing this too much! It just means I am fascinated by this theory of deja vu and alternate selves, and I want to see how it works. I expect that as Fringe goes further on we will get some more answers about deja vu and alternate selves and worlds.Maybe I should reword the last sentence to ask if it's possible to make decisions differently but end up doing the same thing, like alt-Olivia and alt -Charlie are doing!! So: given that alt-Olivia and alt-Charlie are in the FBI as our world characters are, how does the different choices theory of deja vu fit in with the alternate world being slightly technologically ahead of our own? Do they fit? Are we talking about different realities here?I think if we choose a different option, things cannot be the same. In one dimension I turn left, another right. In time we'll move further apart, affecting other events.ie a World trade center is destroyed, in another, it's not. I think of all the time travel cliches used in Si Fi and how if one tiny detail is changed it sets of a completely different chain of events. Someone won't be born, or someone will no longer exist, or something won't be invented yet,ect. And also time is another variable. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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jbehme |
13. RE: Clear some things up(or perhaps muddy the water)
Nov 1 2009, 9:10 PM EST
Also if the story becomes too complex it would be difficult to follow, so we let certain paradoxes exist and give these clever writers a little poetic license, so that they can create a workable reality, albeit flawed.
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Canadadreamgirl |
14. RE: Clear some things up(or perhaps muddy the water)
Nov 5 2009, 4:34 PM EST
"Also if the story becomes too complex it would be difficult to follow, so we let certain paradoxes exist and give these clever writers a little poetic license, so that they can create a workable reality, albeit flawed. "Also, since science doesn't know if other realities exist/co-exist with ours yet, and how it works, it's all theory!!! On another thread we've been talking about how Olivia sees through her alternate's eyes - the episode with the twins, The Road Not Taken - where much of Walter's deja vu theory is also explained. Does Olivia see through her alternate's eyes? How? Where does that other Olivia 'go' - lose consciousness momentarily? If deja vu is seeing into another universe what I've already done and am doing here now, then that means paths do cross, so your point that things can not be the same, isn't fully true. Don't forget all those sf novels are just theories also. No one knows for sure......so Fringe is fun because we get to see a working theory of an alternate world and deja vu, together. Weird and wonderful, that's Fringe!! 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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deja-vu |
15. RE: Clear some things up(or perhaps muddy the water)
Nov 7 2009, 12:13 PM EST
"Also, since science doesn't know if other realities exist/co-exist with ours yet, and how it works, it's all theory!!! On another thread we've been talking about how Olivia sees through her alternate's eyes - the episode with the twins, The Road Not Taken - where much of Walter's deja vu theory is also explained. Does Olivia see through her alternate's eyes? How? Where does that other Olivia 'go' - lose consciousness momentarily? If deja vu is seeing into another universe what I've already done and am doing here now, then that means paths do cross, so your point that things can not be the same, isn't fully true. Don't forget all those sf novels are just theories also. No one knows for sure......so Fringe is fun because we get to see a working theory of an alternate world and deja vu, together. Weird and wonderful, that's Fringe!!"Wow, this is getting pretty heavy. Used to experience Deja-Vu a lot when i was a lot younger, in the 60's. Thought I was going nuts until I found out what it was. Does this mean I have been to alternate universes, or was it just something about the lifestyle in 60's? Has been on my license plat since 1972 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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jbehme |
16. RE: Clear some things up (second thoughts)
Nov 7 2009, 2:44 PM EST
"I think I meant with the last statement about the theory of different decisions not holding true, is that it hasn't been explained if an alternate self of ours (or Walter's or Olivia's) chooses a different option, but the rest of their choices are the same, are they necessarily on a different path? would they have a slight detour and then the paths look the same? Or does it branch away completely even though everything else is the same? I know I'm probably over-analyzing this too much! It just means I am fascinated by this theory of deja vu and alternate selves, and I want to see how it works. I expect that as Fringe goes further on we will get some more answers about deja vu and alternate selves and worlds.Maybe I should reword the last sentence to ask if it's possible to make decisions differently but end up doing the same thing, like alt-Olivia and alt -Charlie are doing!! So: given that alt-Olivia and alt-Charlie are in the FBI as our world characters are, how does the different choices theory of deja vu fit in with the alternate world being slightly technologically ahead of our own? Do they fit? Are we talking about different realities here?When I said all decisions affect the future so it can't end up the same, I was speaking of a popular theory held by some physicists. and of these,for a few with an agenda,their theories are set in stone. Bad science. No discipline or objectivity. Fringe is fiction, not required to meet scientific standards,only needing to be believable. Either theory can apply. As i said,we need to allow the writers poetic license. Also, to repeat what I said somewhere. In Fringe all things are possible.Thankfully. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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deja-vu |
17. RE: Clear some things up (second thoughts)
Nov 11 2009, 4:42 PM EST
Dreamgirl, you state that Charlie, and Olivia are in the same place in both worlds?I thought Charlie was dead? Is he dead in other world too? Did I miss something?? Would'nt be the first time Do you find this valuable? |
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jonnyfrag |
18. RE: Clear some things up (second thoughts)
Nov 11 2009, 7:57 PM EST
The illustration of the smashing globe was on a universal scale. It doesn't behave in the same manner at relatively microscopic levels. Yes, it can make your head hurt because even though this is scifi, it has its basis in a real enough theory that doesn't work on every level (yet.) People would be microns on a universal scale, so it's not like a transplant needs to happen if someone crosses over, certain people can travel between and not disrupt their doppelgangers on the other side.Olivia was detached in one episode and slipping back and forth for a bit. This did not mean her counterpart was necessarily doing the exact same thing at that moment. Probably not in fact. The odds are astronomical against it really. One must wonder what might happen if counterparts met each other and tried to touch... both universes might collapse due to the paradox...or they might just faint (see Back to the Future 2) To paraphrase the words of MST3K, you might as well just relax and enjoy. Do you find this valuable? |
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Canadadreamgirl |
19. RE: Clear some things up (second thoughts)
Nov 12 2009, 6:21 PM EST
"Dreamgirl, you state that Charlie, and Olivia are in the same place in both worlds?Alt-Charlie and Alt-Olivia both work at the FBI in both worlds - when Olivia ''sees' over there, both Alt-Broyles and Alt-Charlie who are working in the FBI, talk to her as if she is there all the time. This is in The Road Not Taken, when Olivia is looking at the files of the twins who were - the fire girls. So the assumption i made was that all three of these characters work in the same place in both worlds. Thus my question, if deja vu is explained by peeking into a world where different choices have been made by us, how different do these choices have to be to change the path? Obviously all three still work at the same place in both worlds. I know, I'm examining Walter's theory thoroughly! I'm fascinated by it, and I want to see if it works - at the same time, I am aware this is just a tv show! lol Our world Charlie is dead now, as far as we know, alt-Charlie is alive and well in the alt-FBI. Do you find this valuable? |