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Discussion: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
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Agent_Mulder |
Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 11 2009, 7:41 AM EDT
What if Bell didn't start the war with the other universe, but Walter did when we went over there and grabbed the alternate Peter? Now alternate Walter (who I'd guess is every bit as intelligent) is the one who created the mercury shape-shifters to cross over, and is looking for revenge on our universe for stealing his son. Maybe that's also what Walter and Bell on our side were preparing for with the child Dunham?
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Keyword tags:
Alternate Universe
Bell
Peter
Walter
War
William Bell
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KayFlame |
1. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 11 2009, 10:53 AM EDT
I agree, i think it was Walter who accidentally started the war. after walter took peter, i'm sure the ZFT stuff began; after walter took peter, the worlds began to collide!!!
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njwu24 |
2. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 12 2009, 11:16 AM EDT
i also agree that walter may have started this war, i think that he also split the two dimensions, both dimensions were obviously on the same path, manhatten island, the twin towers are built on the same location, but then it obviously split with a 9/11 occuring on our side but not theirs. i think that walter and bell discovered the alternate universe and when walter lost peter he went to the other dimension to see the other peter and when he took him it created a split in the universes leading to different futures and outcomes
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pharoadon |
3. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 18 2009, 6:35 PM EDT
"i also agree that walter may have started this war, i think that he also split the two dimensions, both dimensions were obviously on the same path, manhatten island, the twin towers are built on the same location, but then it obviously split with a 9/11 occuring on our side but not theirs. i think that walter and bell discovered the alternate universe and when walter lost peter he went to the other dimension to see the other peter and when he took him it created a split in the universes leading to different futures and outcomes"the differences in futures and outcomes would already have to be a reality...since Peter dies in our universe but not the other...also...if both dimensions were on the exact same path before Peter was taken...the alternate Bell and Bishop would have made the same discovery about the alternate universes...I believe that our William and Walter chose that particular universe because of how close our realities were...and maybe even Bell himself (or someone else who can communicate between worlds) caused the averted 9/11 disaster after seeing it happen in our world Do you find this valuable? |
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achilles11 |
4. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 21 2009, 8:15 PM EDT
i disagree with the idea that walter started a war. seems nore likely that the war was underfoot before peter was taken. walter travels across dimensions to take his son, and then ignores him when he returns.does not seem like a loving father to me. the observer gave him a deadline, we know it ran out when the observer and walter meet in the lab. i reckon walter was working for the observer in exchange for his son. its possible that the alt walter was involved in peters exchange as well. the walter we see in the mirror is a grief stricken man. not one who is gaining a son, but losing one. its possible that the alt universe was already attacked and that peter is a vital part of a resistance.it could be argued that walter began working so hard because he knew the alt walter would come back after his son. in that case why not go back and kill the alt walter? Do you find this valuable? |
Melophobe |
5. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 22 2009, 10:20 AM EDT
I feel the need to point out that the continued existence of the twin towers in the alt universe is not the only, nor is it the oldest difference between the two realities. In the very same episode a newspaper indicates that JFK was not assassinated, and an earlier episode featured a truck that had partially crossed between worlds with a serial number that did not exist on our side. The split between our worlds occurred much earlier than 2001 and was probably centered around an event we would likely consider minor.As for the war, I'm currently kicking around the theory that alt Walter and alt Bell started it. Our Walter and Bell eliminated or chased off their dopplegangers and brought alt Peter across. I figure the shapeshifters work in cells to provide an organizational structure that can function without direct contact from those in general leadership roles. I also wonder if mirror universe Bell has a goatee. If he does, he's clearly evil. Do you find this valuable? |
en1gmat1c |
6. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 22 2009, 11:01 AM EDT
I am intrigued by what alot of people seem to be overlooking. What is happening in the other universe? Every time we see the other universe (with the exception of the twin towers in the season 1 finale) buildings seem to be burning and everyone seems in a mass state of panic. Lets not forget that a "first wave" is the precursor to an invasion. Is the other universe deteriorating? Is that the reason for the first wave? What is causing all the terror, panic and destruction in the other universe? Is the other universe planning a mass evacuation into our universe?
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Melophobe |
7. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 22 2009, 11:14 AM EDT
"I am intrigued by what alot of people seem to be overlooking. What is happening in the other universe? Every time we see the other universe (with the exception of the twin towers in the season 1 finale) buildings seem to be burning and everyone seems in a mass state of panic. Lets not forget that a "first wave" is the precursor to an invasion. Is the other universe deteriorating? Is that the reason for the first wave? What is causing all the terror, panic and destruction in the other universe? Is the other universe planning a mass evacuation into our universe?"You mean that isn't what New York usually looks like? ;) Do you find this valuable? |
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njwu24 |
8. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 22 2009, 4:54 PM EDT
everyone talks about walter and bell starting this war but i think people are overlooking the alt-olivia, i just put up a thread on this but what if with the loss of peter walter takes olivia under his wing to lead the war or in our dimension bell is the founder of massive dynamics and nina sharp runs it maybe in the alt-universe walter is the founder of massive dynamics and olivia is his nina sharp
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Icastillo |
9. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 30 2009, 4:25 PM EDT
"the differences in futures and outcomes would already have to be a reality...since Peter dies in our universe but not the other...also...if both dimensions were on the exact same path before Peter was taken...the alternate Bell and Bishop would have made the same discovery about the alternate universes...I believe that our William and Walter chose that particular universe because of how close our realities were...and maybe even Bell himself (or someone else who can communicate between worlds) caused the averted 9/11 disaster after seeing it happen in our world"I agree with you my friend, the differences in the realities of both dimensions is a given by the fact that both dimensions exist, for if they would behave in the same exact way there would not be a different dimension and we would be talking only in respect of our own reality. I think Walter explains something similar twice to Olivia when he is talking about the options in our choices. Now it would be interesting if really the start of the war was caused by Walter when he took Peter from the other dimension. Does some one knows if the observers are actually humans or aliens? or something else? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
FringeFan420 |
10. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 31 2009, 6:31 PM EDT
"I am intrigued by what alot of people seem to be overlooking. What is happening in the other universe? Every time we see the other universe (with the exception of the twin towers in the season 1 finale) buildings seem to be burning and everyone seems in a mass state of panic. Lets not forget that a "first wave" is the precursor to an invasion. Is the other universe deteriorating? Is that the reason for the first wave? What is causing all the terror, panic and destruction in the other universe? Is the other universe planning a mass evacuation into our universe?"YES. THIS GUY IS SMART RIGHT O THAT SOUNDS WAY MORE LIKELY. THE ALT-WORLD SEEMED TO BE AWARE OF OUR EXISTENCE LONG BEFORE WE DID THEIRS. I'M SURE SHAPE-SHIFTERS WEREN'T BUILT OVER NIGHT AND THE TYPE WRITER SEEMS REAAAL OLD LIKE THEY HAVE BEEN PLANNING FOR A LONG TIME AND WITH THAT SAID WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THEIR IS A ALTERED OR ALTERNATE VERSION OF THE ZFT BIBLE AND SO THE KEY HERE IS TO RETRIEVE A COPY FROM THE ALT-WORLD AND FIND OUT WHAT THEIR INSTRUCTIONS ARE BECAUSE WALTER AND WILLIAM WROTE THE BOOK LONG LONG TIME AGO AND SO WHAT WAS BEING WRITTEN MUST HAVE BEEN SPOKEN ABOUT LONG BEFORE EVEN THE BOOK WAS WRITTEN. WE ALSO HAVE TO ASSUME THAT MANY OF THEM ALREADY INFILTRATED THE DEEPEST PARTS OF OUR GOVERNMENT IF WE ARE DESTROYED IT WILL BE FROM THE INSIDE OUT NOT SOME WEIRD PORTAL OPENING AND LETTING OUT SUPER SOLDIERS. FOR EXAMPLE SHAPER TAKES THE PRESIDENT BUSH PLACE AND ALLOWS 9/11 TO OCCUR . ALL THE MAJOR DISASTERS WILL TIE TOGETHER FOR ONE BIG PICTURE . WONDER WHY THE OBSERVER IS ALWAYS THERE ? TO WATCH AS THE PLAN UNFOLDS THATS WHY HE'S ALWAYS WAITING NEAR BY CUZ HE KNOWS WHATS ABOUT TO HAPPEN AND HE'S THERE TO SEE IT AND MAKE SURE IT GOES AS "PLANNED" AND REPORT. AGREED ? Do you find this valuable? |
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FringeFan420 |
11. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Oct 31 2009, 6:41 PM EDT
"I agree with you my friend, the differences in the realities of both dimensions is a given by the fact that both dimensions exist, for if they would behave in the same exact way there would not be a different dimension and we would be talking only in respect of our own reality. I think Walter explains something similar twice to Olivia when he is talking about the options in our choices. Now it would be interesting if really the start of the war was caused by Walter when he took Peter from the other dimension. Does some one knows if the observers are actually humans or aliens? or something else?"THE WRITERS DID SAY THAT THEY WEREN'T GONNA DO ALIENS SO ITS SAFE TO ASSUME HES SOME SORT OF HUMAN IF YOU ASK ME HE'S A GENETICALLY MODIFIED CLONE WHOSE SOLE FUNCTION IS TO OBSERVE AND REPORT. HE SEEMED TO HAVE THE SAME ABILITIES AS THE CHILD OBSERVER AND SO ITS SAFE TO ASSUME THAT THERE IS MORE THEN ONE . AND MAYBE THEIR IS MORE THEN TWO WORLDS ONE WORLD ATTACKS THE OTHER THAT ATTACKS THE OTHER THAT ATTACKS THE OTHER LIKE STANDING IN BETWEEN TWO MIRRORS IN ONE GIANT CIRCLE OR SPIRAL IF YOU WILL . EXCEPT EACH ADVANCING IMAGE HAD DIFFERENT CHOICES THAT WERE MADE BUT WE ARE ALL SHARING THE SAME PROBLEM . EACH OTHER IMAGE IS JUST ANOTHER VERSION OF THE TRUTH. Do you find this valuable? |
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Canadadreamgirl |
12. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Nov 1 2009, 9:02 AM EST
"THE WRITERS DID SAY THAT THEY WEREN'T GONNA DO ALIENS SO ITS SAFE TO ASSUME HES SOME SORT OF HUMAN IF YOU ASK ME HE'S A GENETICALLY MODIFIED CLONE WHOSE SOLE FUNCTION IS TO OBSERVE AND REPORT. HE SEEMED TO HAVE THE SAME ABILITIES AS THE CHILD OBSERVER AND SO ITS SAFE TO ASSUME THAT THERE IS MORE THEN ONE . AND MAYBE THEIR IS MORE THEN TWO WORLDS ONE WORLD ATTACKS THE OTHER THAT ATTACKS THE OTHER THAT ATTACKS THE OTHER LIKE STANDING IN BETWEEN TWO MIRRORS IN ONE GIANT CIRCLE OR SPIRAL IF YOU WILL . EXCEPT EACH ADVANCING IMAGE HAD DIFFERENT CHOICES THAT WERE MADE BUT WE ARE ALL SHARING THE SAME PROBLEM . EACH OTHER IMAGE IS JUST ANOTHER VERSION OF THE TRUTH. "Yes, I think you have something there, about how the worlds are slightly different, which the ZFT manual Walter reads out loud in Ability says is what William discovered. The alt-universe we know about is slightly ahead technologically than our own, and has made different choices - the Twin Towers are still standing. I think the Observers are definitely not from our world! But I can't decide if they are part of a Universe plan to watch unfolding history on all the different universes, or if they are specifically assigned to trouble spots like our world and the at-universe are in with the ability to now cross dimensions. I think the abiilty to travel between worlds, while it is fascinating, always ends up being bad for one if not both worlds. But we don't know that, I'm just guessing! Do you find this valuable? |
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FringeFan420 |
13. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Nov 1 2009, 2:55 PM EST
"Yes, I think you have something there, about how the worlds are slightly different, which the ZFT manual Walter reads out loud in Ability says is what William discovered. The alt-universe we know about is slightly ahead technologically than our own, and has made different choices - the Twin Towers are still standing.I THINK HE'S AN AGENT A DIFFERENT KIND FROM THE SHAPERS BECAUSE THEY ARE SOLDIERS HE IS AN AGENT WHO IS SUPPOSED TO OBS AND REPORT ONLY, AS WE HAVE SEEN HIM DO ALL THIS TIME. HE DOESN'T OBS JUST ANY WORLD HISTORY BUT ONLY THE SIGNIFICANT BITS THAT ARE APART OF THE OVERALL PLAN. AND I DON'T THINK THEY GO BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN WORLDS THATS WHAT HIS COMMUNICATORS ARE FOR HIS PDA/CELL PHONE HE USED IN ON OF THE EARLIER EPS. THAT OR HE IS COMMUNICATING WITH OTHER CLONES OR OBSERVERS . :D LETS NOT FORGET ZFT IS STILL OUT THERE AND ONLY THOSE WHO DISOBEY OR BREAK THE RULE ARE THE ONES WE'VE ENCOUNTERED SO FAR WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER GENIUSES WHO REMAIN IN THE SHADOWS . IS IT POSSIBLE WALTER OR BELL OR BOTH ARE THE LEADERS OF ZFT AND AFTER BELL AND WALTER DISAPPEAR FOR THOSE MAN YEARS THEY REMAINED ACTIVE FOLLOWING THE THE ZFT BOOK LIKE A BIBLE. KINDA LIKE WE ARE ALL DOING NOW WITH JESUS. UP TO THE POINT WHERE WE WISE UP AND ADMIT THERE IS NO ZEUS , OR GOD . ONLY US AND MAYBE THAT SCARES US THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT WE ARE OUR KEEPERS AND WE MAKE OR DESTROY. BUT NO RELIGION SPEAK HERE. NO MORE 2CENTS SORRY. Do you find this valuable? |
deja-vu |
14. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Nov 11 2009, 4:54 PM EST
"I feel the need to point out that the continued existence of the twin towers in the alt universe is not the only, nor is it the oldest difference between the two realities. In the very same episode a newspaper indicates that JFK was not assassinated, and an earlier episode featured a truck that had partially crossed between worlds with a serial number that did not exist on our side. The split between our worlds occurred much earlier than 2001 and was probably centered around an event we would likely consider minor.Melo, some other differenceson that newspaper are, it's dated 5-12-2009 (date this segment aired) that the Celtics sweep for NBA champs, That did'nt happen, also that Len Bias was MVP. He died 6-19-1986 just after being drafted #1. Do you find this valuable? |
jonnyfrag |
15. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Nov 11 2009, 7:48 PM EST
"Over there' is a much harsher reality, and one that has been distinctly separate from our own, in both minor and rather substantial ways since it's beginning at the same time as ours. That's how that works. Chaos effect and everything. The people over there want to have our reality because it's relatively so much nicer than their own. The grass is always greener and all that.Indeed, one of our main villains will wind up being Evil Walter (maybe even with a goatee?) Do you find this valuable? |
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deja-vu |
16. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Nov 12 2009, 10:18 AM EST
One more thing on the newspaper, then I'm off it (I think). the paper is dated Tuesday5-12-2009, and states the Celtics sweep finals (I wish). In this universe the finals don't even start until around June 10. There thats it. Do you find this valuable? |
WilliamCorley |
17. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Friday, 11:12 AM EST
Alot of you are saying "THE" other universe! There is not just ours and the alternate! I am not getting this from the show but from the principals involved, and the minor knowledge I have of theories of alternate universes. Effectively there are an infinity number of alternate universes. For every decision that is made the universe splits in two, because there are two possible decisions, and therefore two possible outcomes! I do believe int he show they are mainly concerned with one of the alternate universes, possibly the one that is closest in reality to ours! It is also quite possible that some of the other universes have already been destroyed, possibly from Nuclear Holocaust or some natural disaster, or anothre world war.Now with the knowledge we have recently learned about the Observers, and the fact that we know Walter tried to or did create some time of time travel devise, some of the scenes we have seen could easily be a future event, or a completely different universe! I am begining to get angry with Walter... He needs to speak up, it is obvious that he wrote the ZFT "Bible" and he clearly knows soemthing about what is about to happen, or what needs to happen/be done, and he continues to keep quiet! The only reason I can find behind this, is that he knows he is somehow responsible, and feels tremendous guilt! I still believe though if he would just tell them what he knows, he could help them, and possible stop it or correct it! Do you find this valuable? |
t_haj |
18. RE: Walter Started the "War" Not Bell?
Today, 1:26 AM EST
"I am begining to get angry with Walter... He needs to speak up"Willaim... i agree, i think Walter know a lot if not all of of what path they are on, where it's leading and what is to come.. you said it, he wrote the ZFT bible.. why? They carried out the experiments to build/ nuture soldiers why, he know something about the abilities of Peter and ultimately what he's abilities can or will achieve so what.. and why? My argument is this, he at the time he bought peter back from reality #2.. struck some kind of deal with the observer (september) my theory is that where many have speculated that he had to make a sacrifice, do something in order to keep the observer happy.. i think maybe the agreement/ the deal he struck was to do nothing, to keep schtum and to not alter the basis of future events (realities colliding).. It clear that what differentiates other realities from the one we live in, is choice.. some good some bad.. but a choice isn't a choice in isolation.. its a choice which has multiple impacts.. the ripple effect. SO in bell-y's reality they didn't massacre the towers but then did the white house... but the course created of doing or not doing something is huge.. but i think ultimately where we end up is the same and that is destroying the world we live in.. human nature. Do you find this valuable? |
